My Rundown of the Utah State Gubernatorial Debate

Here is my rundown of the Utah State Gubernatorial debate as shown on KUED on September 27, 2010.

You can see the video here.

This is all just based on a spreadsheet I was making while listening/watching the debate. It is not a polished editorial or anything. Just my general quick thoughts put to “paper” as I try to decide who to vote for.

Topic #1 – Campaign Finance Reform
Herbert – No limit, but more open
Carroon – For $$$ limit and also a limit on who can donate
My overall feel during this topic – Herbert’s view is in-line with the SCOTUS, Carroon is getting beat on fund raising and crying about it. Give Carroon points for not bringing up obvious ethics problems Herbert has. Herbert acted too defensive.
Who wins this round – Neither
Why – SCOTUS got this one right. And if there is enough openness ethics issues should be avoided
BUT – Herbert claims to be open. He is still corrupt. Is he not open enough? Or is he just too stupid to know he is corrupt?

Topic #2 – Anchor Babies
Herbert – Believes anchors are citizens, but would support debate on making a change.Β  He wants the Feds to enforce.
Carroon – Believes anchors are citizens and nothing should be changed
My overall feel during this topic – Herbert made too much effort to avoid sounding anti-immigrant even though he sounded anti-illegal.
Who wins this round – Herbert
Why – Anchors are citizens according to the constitution. Destruction caused by them should be minimized, so honest debate needs to happen on requirement of change.
BUT – Change will not happen. And there are sufficient laws on record to eliminate problem. Feds just need to man up and enforce. So while I want something done, the Feds already have necessary tools to do it. Feds just need a true leader

Topic #3 – Immigration Enforcement by States
Herbert – Supports law similar to Arizona and wants states to do the Feds job the Feds refuse to do.
Carroon – Says state should be able to make laws to protect themselves as long as it isn’t immigration related, but wants Feds to do be sole immigration enforcer.
My overall feel during this topic – Carroon was very PC in his response trying to appease both sides. PC = douche bag = politician. Herbert seemed insincere in his response. I think it was all talk to cater to the tea party people.
Who wins this round – Neither
Why – See topic #2
BUT – See topic #2

Topic #4 – Gay Rights
Herbert – Says he is in favor of fair treatment for gays. No gay marriage. Does not support state-wide anti-discrimination ordinance due to it being government intrusion.
Carroon – Supports traditional marriage. Supports anti-discrimination ordinance. Avoided the marriage issue. Says state-wide ordinance makes sense since so many communities are doing it anyway.
My overall feel during this topic – Carroon is obviously more pro-gay. Herbert was not convincing in his support for their fair treatment. However I am all for elimination of unnecessary laws. But since we already have about 500 million laws on the books I view as unnecessary, what harm is one more?
Who wins this round – Carroon
Why – Gay people are people too. While I don’t desire the same lifestyle as them, I fully endorse their right to have it. In America, you should have the right to make bad choices as well as good ones. Being gay may be good for some and bad for others just like almost every decision anyone makes. It’s just a choice.
BUT – No but here

Topic #5 – Education
Herbert – Says education has always been a priority. Lists increases in funding as proof. Wants to lower tax to stimulate economy claiming increased economy = more money for education.
Carroon – Wants change. Gives no method to achieve it. He wants education to be his top priority, but is relying solely on his running mate for her expertise.
My overall feel during this topic – I like Carroon’s passion on it. But with that much passion, where are the ideas? What is he going to do? As for Herbert, I’ve seen our state test scores. Obviously change is needed. Caroon got sidetracked by corporate welfare and blamed that for education funding cuts, yet funding has increased. He needs to stay on topic.
Who wins this round – Neither
Why – Carroon needs a plan to convince me. Herbert’s history is not compelling. Honestly, I think the majority of our problems with education come from anchor babies (especially the ones unable to speak English) and from teacher unions guaranteeing bad teachers keep their jobs.
BUT – Carroon is more likely to create change. For the good or bad is yet unknown. But even bad change can be learned from and improved upon. Herbert’s plan of status quo results in a steady downward slope.

Topic #6 – ObamaCare
Herbert – Does not support nationalized healthcare. Butt hurt about not being involved with creation of it.
Carroon – Concerns of cost. Likes parts of it. Thinks Utah’s system is good. Site’s business concerns.
My overall feel during this topic – Both of them don’t like it. Neither of them seem like they will fight it.
Who wins this round – Carroon
Why – Both candidates have pretty much the same position on this one. I am giving the win to Carroon just because he is staying with what’s right rather than his party’s position.
BUT – Neither of them seemed very passionate one way or the other.

Topic #7 – Business Growth Outside of the Greater Salt Lake City / Provo Area
Herbert – Says businesses are going to big areas because that’s where the market wants them. Says businesses pick where they want to be and endorses rural areas promoting their own strengths.
Carroon – Supports business development centers all over the state. Pushed big for renewable energy jobs but never mentioned location of them.
My overall feel during this topic – Carroon again goes off topic. Both support what is already in place. Neither of them has a plan for change on the topic. At the same time, I don’t give a shit where jobs go in Utah as long as they come to Utah.
Who wins this round – Herbert
Why – Herbert stayed on topic. He knows government does not create jobs. And location of jobs within Utah is not something I care about as long as they are here. Also, Herbert realizes any job is better than losing jobs while trying to get green jobs.
BUT – Neither is really strong on this. But the topic is not really strong and I feel it was a worthless addition to the debate.

Topic #8 – Indian (feather not dot) Relations
Herbert – Started Native American Summit. Cited concerns of financial development and hardships of life on the reservation.
Carroon – Wants to help education. Focused only on that.
My overall feel during this topic – Questioner was concerned that Indians are only 1% of the population and 1.6% of the college goers and at high risk of hereditary diseases and suicide. First of all, 1% of the population? I honestly don’t care about you. 1% is a statistical anomaly. You already don’t pay taxes and get free handouts from the country and the state. Go cry to someone who doesn’t pay for your existence.
Who wins this round – Carroon
Why – If we educate them, they can create opportunities for themselves. Education is always good for everyone.
BUT – Many don’t want to be educated, or their parents don’t want them educated. As a free people they should be free to avoid education. They should be free to commit suicide. They have every opportunity everyone else does. We all have public education available to us. As for being prone to disease? That just bad breeding there.

Topic #9 – Nuclear Waste Storage and Disposal
Herbert – Policy is dictated by existing laws. But fought to have those laws revisited.
Carroon – Opposes foreign waste being here. Opposes high level waste.
My overall feel during this topic – All politicians and citizens need more education on nuclear waste. See this site for education Also this site is a good source as well The moderator lost control of the debate on this one. Fight went back and forth. And honestly neither side is on the side of science, logic, environment, or the future.
Who wins this round – Herbert
Why – His policy while not fully correct is at least less damaging to our future than what Carroon proposes. Both sides need to realize that #1 it is safe to have the waste here. #2- Nuclear power has alternatives that can provide fail proof safe endless power. #3- when our country finally decides to use those methods we are going to need existing waste as valuable start up fuel.
BUT – I don’t see the feds ever switching to Thorium which gives all the benefit of cheap endless safe power and which would use up existing fuel supplies as start up fuel. It’s too logical for any politician to make happen ever…

I just realized my final score is 3 to 3. No wonder I have a hard time choosing between these 2.


One response to “My Rundown of the Utah State Gubernatorial Debate

  1. I am going to watch the debate as I missed it before saying too much.

    Topic #1 – Campaign Finance Reform
    Politics is already not fair. There is always going to be one richer or panders more to businesses/individuals that have money. I am fine with you getting it where you can as long as it is open and you use that money for your campaign, not padding your own wallet. If there is money left over, give it to the interns that you hired for free. πŸ™‚

    Topic #2 – Anchor Babies
    I am fine with them being citizens as long as they and their parents are held up to the standards for education, they are learning English (along with the parents), and the parents are working towards legal citizenship. We need all the taxpayers we can get at the moment.

    Topic #3 – Immigration Enforcement by States
    I agree with you. I am fine with them immigrating, but everyone needs to be here to make the country better as well as their situation. We are all immigrants here if you go back far enough. But they have to work towards citizenship, learn the language/history, and contribute to the well being of the country.

    Topic #4 – Gay Rights
    I do not think gay is a choice. It is something you are born as. I do not care if you are gay. I think you should be able to get married, get marriage health benefits, adopt, and have any other choice as anyone else to be happy or screw-up your own life.

    Topic #5 – Education
    Without it the country goes down. Period. I think that unions were a good idea at the turn of the century, but they have outlived their usefulness. They think you should get a raise every year no matter your performance just because you are a warm body. While and because teachers are responsible for the future they do deserve to get paid very well, but they need to perform well. I say make pay based upon performance. I will gladly pay some more taxes for a better system.

    Topic #6 – ObamaCare
    Some good, some bad there. 2500 pages is too complex for the idea that everyone should have access to healthcare. A larger risk pool means less cost. Let it be privatized and find a way for efficiency to be rewarded. I see first hand how retarded healthcare companies are and how easily they could trim A LOT of money.

    Topic #7 – Business Growth Outside of the Greater Salt Lake City / Provo Area
    The city usually does industry and service and the rural does farming, ranching, and mineral stuff. That is the way it is. If you are a manufacturer the closer you are to the raw goods the cheaper it is for you to operate, the less you pollute, the less fossil fuels you use.

    Topic #8 – Indian (feather not dot) Relations
    It is not like we took the current day’s indian’s lands. We took you grandfather’s grandfather’s lands. I know an indian and she gets $800 a month just for being a redskin. If you can’t use that money to get an education and stay off the fire water, too bad for you. When the English made Ireland and China a hellhole to live in they came here. They just built a lot of this country.

    Topic #9 – Nuclear Waste Storage and Disposal
    I do plead ignorance on this one. Just say radioactive and people shit themselves.

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